Cece
Xie,
a
former
Biglaw
associate
who
became
a
bona
fide
influencer
with
over
400,000
followers,
has
had
one
of
the
most
remarkable
stories
of
balancing
content
creation
with
a
career
in
the
law.
Unlike
some
of
us
who
left
the
practice
before
becoming
a
content
creator,
Cece
“blew
up”
on
TikTok
while
working
at
her
day
job
as
an
associate
at
Morrison
&
Foerster.
I
first
met
Cece
virtually
at
an
online
creator
meetup
in
2021.
I’m
used
to
being
the
more
“famous”
creator
in
most
conversations
with
lawyers,
but
this
time
it
was
the
other
way
around.
It
was
so
surreal
to
actually
meet
and
talk
to
her,
especially
since
I’d
been
following
her
TikTok
account
for
some
time.
Over
the
next
year
we
stayed
in
touch,
and
even
co-hosted
a
CLE
for
the
Washington
Bar
Association’s
Corporate
Counsel
Section.
And
a
few
months
ago,
bringing
the
internet
and
the
real
world
together
—
we
finally
met
in
person
at
the
NAPABA
conference
in
Las
Vegas
(which
was
super
cool)!
After
catching
up
about
all
things
law
and
content
creation,
I
realized
that
Cece’s
story
involved
a
lot
more
than
what
she
usually
shares
publicly.
She’s
had
such
an
extraordinary
journey.
So
it
was
obvious
to
me
that
I
should
interview
her
to
share
what
it
was
like
going
through
the
process
of
becoming
“TikTok
famous”
and
what
she’s
currently
working
on.
Which
led
to
this
column
today.
Without
further
ado,
here’s
an
abbreviated
version
of
our
conversation:
Alex
Su:
How
did
you
create
such
a
large
social
media
audience
as
a
Biglaw
associate?
Cece
Xie:
TikTok
was
honestly
a
fluke
—
my
partner
had
downloaded
TikTok
in
December
2019
because
he
wanted
to
stay
in
the
know
about
trends,
what
the
kids
are
talking
about
—
he’s
honestly
the
much
cooler
one
as
between
the
two
of
us
—
and
I
remember
thinking
that
it
was
just
a
lip-syncing
app
for
teenagers
at
the
time.
My
birthday
rolled
around
in
April
during
the
height
of
the
pandemic’s
first
wave,
and
I
was
like,
“There
is
no
way
I
can
spend
my
birthday
doing
the
same
exact
thing
that
I’ve
been
doing
every
other
day
—
I
need
to
do
something
different.”
But
there
wasn’t
anything
to
do
at
that
time
—
we
knew
nothing
about
COVID,
not
even
if
we
could
meet
with
people
outside,
so
I
decided
that
for
my
birthday,
I
would
try
making
a
TikTok.
To
my
surprise,
it
went
kinda
viral,
and
I
kept
on
posting
because
I
had
nothing
else
to
channel
my
creative
energy
into
at
the
time.
It
was
fun
to
challenge
myself
to
create
different
types
of
video,
y’know?
Even
if
my
first
day
in
the
life
of
a
Biglaw
attorney
video
took
me
four
hours
of
editing
alone.
And
that
was
the
first
video
that
really,
really
took
off.
AS:
Four
hours?
That’s
an
incredible
amount
of
work!
But
it
sounds
like
it
all
paid
off
because
it
went
viral.
Why
do
you
think
that
first
video
did
so
well?
CX:
In
retrospect,
there’s
this
huge
hunger
to
know
about
what
being
an
adult
is
like,
I
think.
I
started
getting
questions
from
people
about
how
to
get
a
Biglaw
job,
whether
undergrad
matters
for
law
school
admissions,
and
it
reminded
me
of
all
the
questions
I
had
when
I
was
younger,
except
I
never
got
to
see
videos
from
people
who
had
answers
to
those
questions.
So
I
decided
to
start
sharing
more
about
my
journey
and
all
of
the
things
I
learned
along
the
way,
to
force
myself
to
start
describing
the
air
around
me
that
I
had
gotten
used
to
and
was
no
longer
aware
of.
And
that
turned
out
to
really
resonate
with
people.
AS:
After
going
viral
did
you
worry
about
how
it
would
impact
your
day
job?
I
mean,
I
first
went
viral
as
a
legal
tech
salesperson.
You
were
a
Biglaw
associate!
CX:
I
really
didn’t
think
too
much
at
first
about
how
my
TikTok
could
impact
my
life
at
work
—
I
mean,
I
already
had
a
public
Instagram,
and
I
think
it’s
fairly
common
for
associates
of
my
class
to
have
public
social
media
accounts.
My
firm
at
the
time
had
a
social
media
policy,
which
I
took
a
look
at
in
the
early
days
of
creating
just
to
be
sure
that
I
was
always
on
the
right
side
of
the
line.
Yes,
there
is
always
a
risk
with
putting
anything
out
there
in
the
open,
but
as
long
as
you
stand
by
what
you
post
in
both
personal
and
professional
settings,
what
is
there
to
be
worried
about?
It
wasn’t
until
I
got
my
first
media
inquiry
that
I
realized
my
account
probably
had
gotten
big
enough
that
it
was
time
to
raise
it
with
the
firm.
They
were
fantastic
about
it,
actually
—
they
set
up
meetings
with
the
firm’s
PR
person
for
media
training,
helped
me
develop
a
process
for
both
media
inquiries
and
—
believe
it
or
not
—
brand
deals,
really
stood
behind
me
even
during
the
more
trying
times
of
being
online,
like
when
firm
leadership
received
a
hate
email
about
me
after
one
of
my
posts
got
picked
up
by
the
NY
Post
and
Daily
Mail.
It
was
really
encouraging
and
a
huge
vote-of-confidence
in
my
judgment
and
my
contributions
to
the
firm.
I
think
it
definitely
helped
that
I
was
a
midlevel/senior
associate
at
the
time,
had
great
reviews,
was
already
doing
something
besides
being
an
associate
(teaching
a
class
at
Yale),
and
had
really
great
sponsors
at
the
firm
already.
You
get
a
lot
more
latitude
to
go
off
the
straight-and-narrow
if
you’ve
already
proven
to
the
powers-that-be
that
you’ve
mastered
the
straight-and-narrow,
I
think,
and
my
firm
at
the
time
really
is
on
the
more
progressive
end,
as
well,
as
Biglaw
firms
go.
AS:
It
seems
like
you
really
knew
how
to
navigate
the
firm.
As
an
associate
that
was
something
I
always
struggled
with,
like
the
unspoken
rules
of
how
to
get
things
done.
How
did
you
learn
to
do
that?
CX:
The
only
way
that
anyone
can
really
get
the
lowdown
on
Biglaw
—
through
office
gossip!
But
like
the
good
kind,
not
the
cruel
or
nasty
kind
that
has
no
place
in
society.
I
remember
sitting
in
my
office
with
my
officemate
and
trading
information
—
which
partners
we
had
heard
were
lovely
to
work
with,
which
partners
had
blown
up
at
someone
we
had
summered
with,
which
partners
were
the
most
generous
when
it
came
to
summer
lunches.
It’s
hard
to
learn
about
things
that
will
be
helpful
for
your
specific
experience
of
Biglaw
through
school
info
sessions
or
firm
trainings
—
at
the
end
of
the
day,
the
associates
and
partners
whom
you
work
with
have
the
biggest
impact
on
your
experience,
so
you
need
to
dissect
things
on
an
individual-by-individual
basis.
Which
can
only
really
be
accomplished
through
directly
working
with
those
individuals
or
talking
to
others
who
have
worked
with
them.
Even
little
things
like
whether
this
partner
prefers
Track
Changes
or
a
redline
wasn’t
actually
so
little,
and
I
figured
that
I
would
inevitably
make
mistakes,
so
it
was
up
to
me
to
get
as
much
as
I
could
right
—
even
these
supposedly
little
formatting
things
or
arranging
everyone
in
the
CC
by
seniority
—
in
anticipation
of
accruing
enough
goodwill
so
that
the
mistake
I
make
later
won’t
seem
as
large.
Every
time
I
was
assigned
to
a
matter,
I
would
schedule
a
coffee
or
call
or
Zoom
with
a
slightly
more
senior
associate
who
had
worked
a
lot
with
the
partner
in
charge
of
the
matter,
and
I
would
ask
them
about
the
partner’s
work
preferences
and
idiosyncrasies.
I
did
it
largely
out
of
anxiety
at
the
time
—
like
I
knew
that
I
didn’t
know
the
rules,
so
I
had
to
really
try
and
learn
the
rules
—
but
now
I
see
that
intel-gathering
as
helpful
foundation-building,
no
matter
the
context.
AS:
Which
all
junior
associates
would
benefit
from,
right?
CX:
Totally.
As
I
got
more
senior,
I
realized
that
I
all
of
a
sudden
was
the
associate
that
the
juniors
reached
out
to
with
questions
about
how
to
work
with
certain
partners,
how
to
bill
time,
how
to
ask
for
vacation.
It
was
a
really
bizarre
moment,
realizing
that
I
had
gone
from
someone
who
hadn’t
known
the
rules
to
someone
who
seemed
to
know
the
rules.
That,
combined
with
all
of
the
questions
I
got
on
social
media,
helped
me
recognize
just
how
far
I
had
come
in
terms
of
learning
both
the
substantive
and
cultural
elements
of
Biglaw.
And
while
the
specifics
of
how
I
navigated
Biglaw
wouldn’t
apply
for
everyone
—
because
it’s
ultimately
on
an
individual
basis
—
I
wanted
to
demystify
the
process
of
how
I
managed
to
glean
the
information.
Like
yes,
the
details
may
be
different
between
partners
and
between
firms,
but
the
way
of
finding
out
those
details
—
that
template
for
doing
so
—
is
relatively
static,
and
I
wanted
to
give
people
a
roadmap
to
learn
what
they
needed
to
learn
in
order
to
thrive
in
whatever
legal
setting
they
found
themselves
in.
(Examples:
see
here,
here,
and
here.)
AS:
Given
that
you
understood
so
much
about
how
things
work,
why
did
you
decide
to
leave
the
firm?
CX:
This
is
always
a
funny
question
to
me,
because
it’s
probably
THE
most
common
question
I
get
nowadays,
and
I
don’t
think
I
would
get
asked
it
as
much
if
I
had
left
to
go
in-house
or
to
a
smaller
firm.
I
think
there’s
something
about
leaving
Biglaw
for
something
more
uncharted
that
piques
people’s
curiosities,
which
is
understandable.
Two
years
ago,
I
didn’t
see
myself
leaving
Biglaw
and
honestly
was
low
key
starting
to
think
about
all
the
steps
I
would
need
to
take
in
order
to
be
a
serious
contender
for
partner.
It
wasn’t
until
I
was
chatting
with
a
creator
friend
who
then
offered
to
introduce
me
to
her
literary
agent
that
I
even
thought
about
another
career
path
outside
of
strictly
the
law.
The
lit
agent
and
I
met,
and
he
really
liked
my
book
ideas,
so
I
signed
with
him
and
the
next
step
was
to
write
the
book
proposal.
Except
I
was
horrible
at
making
time
to
write
the
book
proposal.
Work
would
be
busy,
or
if
work
wasn’t
busy,
I
was
trying
to
spend
time
with
friends,
attend
weddings,
sit
on
my
couch
and
play
video
games.
Every
month,
I
would
send
my
agent
an
email
basically
apologizing
that
no
progress
had
been
made.
After
sending
that
sad
apology
email
a
few
times,
I
realized
that
if
I
ever
wanted
to
make
this
book
a
reality,
I
would
have
to
shake
up
my
life
somehow
—
but
I
was
really,
really
scared
to
quit
with
nothing
else
lined
up.
It
felt
like
it
would
be
an
affront
to
my
upbringing
and
the
very
much
risk-averse
way
that
I
had
lived
my
life
up
until
then.
So
I
applied
to
a
Ph.D.
in
Law
program,
got
rejected,
and
then
had
to
seriously
ask
myself
whether
I
was
ready
to
quit
my
quite
lovely
time
at
the
firm
for
the
unknown.
The
answer
was
yes.
I
had
always
loved
reading
and
writing
—
which
I
think
is
quite
common
for
lawyers
—
but
had
never
thought
I
would
get
the
opportunity,
both
time-wise
and
financially,
to
write
a
book,
at
least
not
until
I
was
comfortably
retired.
But
with
this
opportunity
in
front
of
me,
having
already
jumped
the
first
hurdle
of
getting
an
agent,
it
felt
silly
to
not
at
least
give
it
a
shot
—
a
real
shot.
I
did,
of
course,
talk
to
people
about
this
decision
and
learned
that
returning
to
Biglaw
within
two
years
wouldn’t
be
a
problem,
given
my
practice
area
and
seniority,
so
it
seemed
like
the
downside
was
even
less
than
what
I
had
imagined.
I’ve
always
been
pretty
meticulous
about
planning
every
second
of
my
life,
but
I
was
starting
to
see,
just
around
me
and
with
my
high
school
and
college
friends,
that
the
happiest
and
most
fulfilled
people
had
gone
off-plan
at
some
point
in
their
lives.
So
it
felt
like
it
was
time
to
choose
the
unknown
path
rather
than
the
known,
to
really
push
myself
out
of
my
comfort
zone,
to
try
something
that
I
had
always
wanted
to
do
but
never
thought
I
could.
It
was
honestly
one
of
the
scariest
things
that
I
had
ever
done,
made
much
worse
by
the
slew
of
armchair
critics
online
who
wasted
no
time
in
telling
me
that
I
was
wasting
my
education,
I
had
taken
a
more
deserving
person’s
spot
in
law
school
and
as
a
member
of
the
bar,
I
was
uninteresting
and
boring
if
I
weren’t
a
lawyer.
Those
voices
hurt
a
lot
because
on
some
level,
I
agreed
with
them
—
and
it
took
a
good
nine
months
before
my
inner
critic
stopped
parroting
their
comments
to
me.
AS:
What
are
you
working
on
now?
CX:
Mostly
just
trying
to
figure
it
out!
Now
that
I
don’t
have
projects
and
timelines
set
by
partner
or
client
demands,
most
of
last
year
was
a
huge
experiment.
I
posted
more
on
YouTube,
tried
a
solo
podcast,
and
finished
my
book
proposal.
I
tried
to
pay
special
attention
to
how
working
on
each
step
in
those
projects
made
me
feel
—
energized?
Motivated?
Deflated?
Depressed?
The
plan
this
year
is
to
take
all
of
that
information
learned
from
experimenting
and
work
more
on
what
I
like
to
work
on
—
namely,
thinking
and
writing.
To
that
end,
I
moved
my
blog
over
to
a
Substack,
plan
on
creating
video
essays
and
vlogs
for
YouTube,
and
am
going
to
keep
on
podcasting
in
some
way,
shape,
or
form.
And
of
course,
the
big
project
of
this
year
will
be
writing
my
book!
AS:
Tell
us
about
your
book!
CX:
I’ve
been
thinking
about
Biglaw
and
the
legal
industry
for
quite
a
while,
but
the
real
impetus
to
put
pen
to
paper
came
out
of
an
interview
I
had
with
a
journalist,
who
was
reporting
on
how
the
pandemic
was
impacting
Biglaw
associates.
After
I
spoke
with
him,
he
told
me
a
few
months
later
that
they
ended
up
having
to
cut
the
story
because
they
couldn’t
find
associates
willing
to
come
forward
and
speak
candidly
about
their
experiences.
That
was
disappointing
but
not
surprising
to
me
—
I’m
very
much
aware
of
Biglaw’s
culture
of
silence,
which
is
what
makes
lawsuits
against
Biglaw
firms
so
rare
and
the
whisper
network
of
office
gossip
so
valuable.
So
I
got
to
thinking
about
writing
about
my
own
experience
—
and
maybe
my
friends’
experiences
—
in
Biglaw,
as
a
way
to
break
through
that
culture
of
silence.
When
I
was
researching
“comps”
[competing
books]
for
my
proposal,
I
was
astonished
to
find
that
while
there
was
a
plethora
of
novels
about
Biglaw,
there
weren’t
any
nonfiction
books
about
the
experience
of
working
in
Biglaw.
Which
was
just
wild
to
me,
because
I
love
behind-the
scenes
industry
books
like
“Liar’s
Poker”
by
Michael
Lewis
and
“Uncanny
Valley”
by
Anna
Wiener.
I
got
to
thinking
about
all
of
the
stories
that
my
law
school
classmates
and
colleagues
would
share
with
one
another,
stories
that
are
valuable
commentaries
on
Biglaw
culture
and
shine
a
light
on
the
industry’s
practices
(both
good
and
bad),
and
started
wondering
whether
I
could
create
a
way
for
people
to
share
their
stories
in
a
comfortable
way,
with
someone
who
has
also
gone
through
the
machine
and
understands
what
that’s
like.
That’s
when
the
scope
of
the
book
became
larger,
as
I
really
want
to
capture
both
the
joy
and
the
ills
of
working
in
Biglaw,
incorporate
different
perspectives
of
the
Biglaw
experience,
and
ultimately
meditate
on
what
Biglaw’s
practices
mean
for
us
as
people
and
society
as
a
whole,
going
forward.
So
if
any
readers
have
any
notable
experiences
in
Biglaw
—
good
or
bad!
—
and
are
willing
to
chat
with
me
about
them,
I’d
love
to
be
a
sounding
board
for
those
stories
or
ideas
about
the
future
of
biglaw.
Alex
Su
is
currently
the
Head
of
Community
Development
at
Ironclad,
a
leading
legal
technology
company
that
helps
accelerate
the
contracting
process.
Earlier
in
his
career,
he
was
an
associate
at
Sullivan
&
Cromwell
and
clerked
for
a
federal
district
judge.
Alex
graduated
from
Northwestern
Pritzker
School
of
Law,
where
he
was
an
editor
of
the
law
review
and
the
student
commencement
speaker.
In
his
free
time,
he
writes
about
his
sales,
technology,
and
the
unspoken
rules
of
the
legal
industry
in
his
newsletter
Off
The
Record.