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It is that time of year at Vanderbilt Law where 1Ls trudge across the street to Career Services for their initial appointment with their assigned counselor. This weeks-long cavalcade is valuable for me as I can put a face with each name on my Excel spreadsheet while also beginning a relationship that will not just last for the next three years, but ideally for the foreseeable future as the student graduates, goes off into legal practice, and starts recruiting the next generation of Vanderbilt students. The intrinsic value of these numerous meetings has only been amplified this year as they provide me with a much-needed distraction from watching the President of the United States repeatedly admit to crimes, and other impeachable actions, on national television while also melting down on Twitter and in press conferences, behavior which has quickly morphed from “you hate to see it” to “the person in charge of the most powerful military in human history is really losing his mind, isn’t he?”
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Almost exactly a year ago today, I discussed what 1Ls should be seeking from their CSO during an initial meeting. This column looks at the other side of the table — or in my case, office desk — what I, and those in CSO more generally, are/should be looking for from this first conversation with students. I start these introductory meetings the same way — yes, having conducted these for more than four years, and with literally hundreds of students, I have developed a script in my mind that I could recite while half asleep if need be, a skill that can come in handy after a long day while living that #4fourandunder lifestyle — explaining that the first half of the discussion consists of me asking the student a bunch of questions and the second is mainly me talking at them to explain how our office operates. The second half of this conversation is going to vary from school to school and probably of little interest to a broader audience, though 1Ls have been THRILLED to learn they are going to be the guinea pigs for the post-NALP Guidelines world after the organization’s stunning abdication last year. However, the first half of the conversation is something worth diving into.
So, what are some of the questions I ask during an initial CSO meeting? First, I want to know a bit about a student’s background. Where are they from? Where did they go to college, and why? What did they study? Not only does it help me understand the student a bit more and, ideally, find something relatable between the two of us, but also because certain undergraduate majors for attorneys are in far greater demand than others. While I, and the rest of my CSO colleagues around the country, might know that a law student with an electrical engineering degree is as close to instantaneously employable as exists in Biglaw, that might not be self-evident to a 22-year-old who graduated from college three months prior and has no foundational understanding of the legal recruiting world.
I also like to get a sense from students why they decided to come to law school. Is this a lifetime passion of theirs or was it the default option for a smart kid who couldn’t stand the sight of blood? That is a question that comes up in nearly every legal job interview, regardless of the employer, so it is best to start perfecting that answer now.
My curiosity over their law school enrollment extends to why they picked Vanderbilt. What was it about the school that stood out and how might that correlate to the type of employer for which they are best suited? Students who valued the school’s collegiality and small class size will, ideally, become deeply enmeshed into the fabric of the law school during their time on campus, likely making them an excellent resource for future matriculants at Vanderbilt Law. Also on the list of questions is what other schools they were considering aside from Vanderbilt. While law school rankings can serve some purpose, I guess, I think a far better metric is to sort schools by tiers based on what other schools a 1L was considering. It is no surprise that the vast majority of Vanderbilt students say they chose us over a pool of roughly six to 10 others law schools.
Inquiring about a student’s past work experience lets me know who has been in a professional environment before, and thus likely knows that the key to excelling therein is often based on performing basic acts of professionalism such as showing up to work each day and answering emails that are sent your way. This is not to say that students who come straight through from undergrad cannot excel in a professional setting, but sometimes they might need professionalism concepts that seem rudimentary to many explained in a deliberate manner.
I tell students that while I know that they have only been in law school for a month or so at that point, I am curious as to their post-graduation plans, in both the short term and the long-term. As I mention to all students, the Vanderbilt CSO is designed to help students obtain the job they are looking for in any corner of the legal industry, but there are some areas in which I, and our office in general, have greater expertise. For example, since the vast bulk of Vanderbilt students want to go into Biglaw, we have cultivated a knowledge base and established a recruiting program that makes such jobs quite obtainable. For those students who wish to go into an alternative field, I am more than happy to assist in their search, but we also have other resources available that will be especially helpful, if a student knows of, and utilizes them — for example, we have a faculty member who is the dedicated federal clerkship advisor and whose tireless efforts have allowed Vanderbilt to repeatedly rank as one of top law schools in the nation for churning out federal law clerks, as well as having a Public Interest Office who works directly with those students seeking to use their law degree for the greater good in public service. A corollary question is in what geographic area a student would like to practice. Again, while Vanderbilt is national law school which sends people to destinations across the U.S. and the world, there are certain areas in which we have alumni bursting from the seams and have specific structures in place to help students secure a job. Other markets are obtainable, it will just require a different strategy and a realistic understanding of how those markets operate.
Finally, after asking about foreign language skills, I ask students to tell me something about themselves I would not be able to discern from any of their paper application materials (i.e., résumé, cover letter, transcripts, etc.) While many students are befuddled by the question and might be wondering about its relevance, there is a reason it holds a place in the script. By in large, employers know that nearly all members of a given Vanderbilt 1L class can do the work required of an attorney at an Am Law 100 firm, a boutique practice, governmental service, the nonprofit sector, or elsewhere. So the interview process can be more about finding a colleague than a competent attorney. Being able to express who you are outside of your academic and professional accomplishments and help employers determine who they are going to want to pull all-nighters with and who they think will mesh well with their culture. Plus, as more and more legal employers increasingly use behavioral questions, students have to be prepared to talk about more than what their favorite class is or why they came to law school. Beginning to think about who you are outside of the classroom and your life experiences that brought you to law school can help you stand out during the interview process in a way your peers will not.
So, I look forward to meeting my cohort of Vanderbilt Law 1Ls and finding out all about who they are, why they came to law school, and what they hope to accomplish upon graduation. Besides, it provides a respite from finding out no one in the highest levels of the U.S. government heeded Stringer Bells’ reprobation.
Nicholas Alexiou is the Director of LL.M. and Alumni Advising as well as the Associate Director of Career Services at Vanderbilt University Law School. He will, hopefully, respond to your emails at abovethelawcso@gmail.com.